Epic Keep Fights

Ok so last night I ran around in Open RvR, capping BO and taking keeps. Destruction was almost not to be seen, I say almost because there were a couple groups here and there, but not the predominant warbands of the last few weeks. I blame the new Fortress pop cap that went in. I figure most of the Destruction that were normally against us were on their T4 guys trying to defend their Forts (from the map, Order was pushing hard). Can’t say I blame them really, a chance to play something that has been for the most part impossible due to server crashes. Hell I wanted to go too! Sadly my T4 guy is still under that first cap and I would of not been let in, so I kept playing my Witch Hunter in the ever so lonely T2.



As I was running around, from one objective to another, I got to thinking. How could Mythic make ORvR attractive, as it is now, but still make fighting in ORvR even more attractive? As it stands now, Taking a defended keep IS worth more RP/XP/Inf than taking a non-defended one, but you get a full warband inside defending and it doesn’t matter how many you got attacking. They will probably hold you. It’s the same for all tiers. So what to do?


Increasing the influence and Rp/xp rewards will do nothing here. Does it matter how much influence you can possibly get, if you never can actually get it? The system already factors in whether there were players killed defending for the final reward, Attacking a defended keep "Should" be more attractive, to do that I don’t think there is really any other way but to redesign the Keep themselves.


Look at how a T3-4 generic keep is defended. First you have the outer wall, the first choke point. Tanks in front, under the oil with enough healers to out heal the incoming damage and it’s easy to hold. There is the possibility of getting a few people past the front line and at the healers, or toss damage to those that are at least visible. But that’s about it. Unless you can do more damage than they can heal your going to get stopped here. It’s possible here as  an attacker can array more people here to target the shield wall. The same can be said for the main keep gate. This is why most of the time the defenders pull back to the lords room. Attacking a lords room is suicidal against even a few numbers. The fact that the attackers cannot make use of their firepower, and the defenders can make use of their healing power shifts the balance far to heavily to the defenders.


The lords room defense is typically thus, Tanks/melee at the top of the ramp, healers all over the lords room, and range in positions to be able to fire on anyone on the ramp. From the lords room, healers are for the most part safe from any form of incoming fire, thus they are able to pour out heals to the front line as well as resurrect those that fall, thus keeping the front line sufficiently reinforced. The simple ability to freely resurrect fallen quite honestly gives the defenders the ability to OUTNUMBER the attackers. No matter what the original odds were, as long as they can easily resurrect the fallen they can turn those odds back to their side.


The attackers on the other hand cannot as easily resurrect their fallen, due to line of sight issues. Attackers killed on the very top of the ramp or in the lords room are difficult to get if not impossible. The healers have to put themselves in situations where they will come under attack in order to gain the line of sight needed to get their own fallen up. This results in either the death of the brave healer or at the very least slows down the reinforcing process for their side. Added that the attackers will die more often than the defenders due to the very same line of sight issues and you can see why attacking a fairly well defended keep is futile at best.


The only solution I can think of is eliminate line of sight for heals and resurrections INSIDE the keep. Outside the keep walls, from the landing or from the top should still be "no line of sight" to anyone inside. But from anywhere INSIDE the keep to INSIDE there is line of sight. This would put both sides on equal footing, the same as an open field battle, thus making it a bit harder to defend but still with the choke points, not impossible. Also it would make attacking a defended keep far far more attractive.


Just to clarify what I mean. Line of sight=

From the lower floor keep to the Lords room-YES

From the Lords room to the Lower floor-YES  (I know this hurts stopping the reinforcements but you will still be able to stop them outside)

From the Landing of the Lords room to the Lower floor- Normal line of sight applies

From the Landing of the Lords room to the Lords room- Normal line of sight applies

From the top of the keep (where the Renown NPC’s are) to the Lords room or the Lower floor- Normal line of sight applies

From the Lords Room or the Lower floor to anywhere outside the keep-Normal line of sight applies


Hope that makes sense a bit. I do think that if they were to do this it would make keep battles, no matter the Tier, far far more attractive to all.




5 Responses to “Epic Keep Fights”

  1. I think you are thinking like sukrat, but I think you should cover the other side of the topic in the post too…

  2. I am amazed with it. It is a good thing for my research. Thanks

  3. I like this idea, but would rather have the keep ramps redone to give better line of sight instead. A long ramp with no turns and positioned such that it limits the defenders view of the lower level is more to my liking. If an attacker gets killed in the lords room then it should be hard to rez but if on the ramp a healer will have line of sight and you can start all over again. This would be easier for devs and still leaves enough risk to the attacker, while keeping the advantage to those holding a keep.

  4. I am unable to understand this post. But well some points are useful for me.

  5. Heh, well I guess I was just mindlessly babling at the time. Yea, a ramp redesign woud fix a few things, but I think the devs will probably go another rout. Another factor in keep fights I’d like to see would be to elimante collision detection for friendlies. I’ve been killed far to often because of the simple fact that my own were blocking an escape.

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